controlling the start date for new tasks

[chris]

In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start on project date" or "start on the current date"
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill them in ? It could be misleading for someone else reading the schedule before all the dates have been established. I tried to set the current date to N/A in the Project Information to force this but it would not allow it ? Any ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A
Thank

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi Chris,

All tasks always and inevitably have a start date.
You could make the result less "misleading" by entering 1/1/84 in Project
start such that new tasks start on that date.
But once the bulk of your tasks is entered, better change project start to
something more realistic since it also positions some screens.

HTH
--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
Project Management Consultancy
Prom+ade BVBA
32-495-300 620

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the schedule before all
the dates have been established. I tried to set the current date to N/A in
the Project Information to force this but it would not allow it ? Any
ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

[Steve House]

You're getting the cart before the horse here. You should not "establish
and fill in" the dates for tasks yourself at all - that's the job of MS
Project. Except in the *rare* circumstance where you intend to establish
either a "start no earlier than" or "finish no earlier than" task constraint
you should never, ever enter any dates in the start or finish columns.
Project looks at the Project start date, the dependency relationships
between the tasks, and the availability of resources and then computes the
start/finish dates that will give you the optimum schedule. That's the
fundmental reason to use the software.

Steve House
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the schedule before all
the dates have been established. I tried to set the current date to N/A in
the Project Information to force this but it would not allow it ? Any
ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

[a***@discussions.microsoft.com]

I have a lot or respect for Steve and value his knowledge,
but if I have to say one thing that I don't agree with is
that all of his responses are 100% correct in theory, but
NOT in reality. Your "theory" responses mean nothing in
the real world. So please when you answer a question, go
ahead and provide the theoretical answer (Which I really
do value), but please don't forget the reality is the real
world. These people need real world solutions to their
problems.

-----Original Message-----
You're getting the cart before the horse here. You

should not "establish

and fill in" the dates for tasks yourself at all - that's

the job of MS

Project. Except in the *rare* circumstance where you

intend to establish

either a "start no earlier than" or "finish no earlier

than" task constraint

you should never, ever enter any dates in the start or

finish columns.

Project looks at the Project start date, the dependency

relationships

between the tasks, and the availability of resources and

then computes the

start/finish dates that will give you the optimum

schedule. That's the

fundmental reason to use the software.
Steve House
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be

set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A

until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the

schedule before all

the dates have been established. I tried to set the

current date to N/A in

the Project Information to force this but it would not

allow it ? Any

ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

.

[Trevor Rabey]

Perhaps you could expand on this line of reasoning a bit and enlighten us.
An example would be helpful.
Which particular aspect(s) of the "theory" do you think are inapplicable in
the "real world".

In this particular case, as in every other that I have seen, Steve's answer
is not only perfect theory but is also perfect practice.
The thing that requires correction here is the question, which is not at all
well thought through. If tasks had no start dates where would they appear on
the Gantt chart? And, yes, it is absolutely correct (in theory and in
practice) that dates are calculated from the various inputs (duration,
links, resouce availability) and only in very rare cases are they themselves
one of the inputs. Why buy software to calculate start dates and then
calculate them (or make them up) yourself? Or as we say, "why buy a dog and
do the barkin"?
One salient feature of the "real world" which you seem so fond of is that
most projects are planned very badly by people who don't know much about
planning at all, or at least know very little (nothing, really) about the
CPM which is the best way to plan projects that I know about.

Post by a***@discussions.microsoft.com
I have a lot or respect for Steve and value his knowledge,
but if I have to say one thing that I don't agree with is
that all of his responses are 100% correct in theory, but
NOT in reality. Your "theory" responses mean nothing in
the real world. So please when you answer a question, go
ahead and provide the theoretical answer (Which I really
do value), but please don't forget the reality is the real
world. These people need real world solutions to their
problems.

-----Original Message-----
You're getting the cart before the horse here. You

should not "establish

and fill in" the dates for tasks yourself at all - that's

the job of MS

Project. Except in the *rare* circumstance where you

intend to establish

either a "start no earlier than" or "finish no earlier

than" task constraint

you should never, ever enter any dates in the start or

finish columns.

Project looks at the Project start date, the dependency

relationships

between the tasks, and the availability of resources and

then computes the

start/finish dates that will give you the optimum

schedule. That's the

fundmental reason to use the software.
Steve House
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be

set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A

until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the

schedule before all

the dates have been established. I tried to set the

current date to N/A in

the Project Information to force this but it would not

allow it ? Any

ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

.

[chris]

I wrote the orginal question and the reason for the question was that I am generating schedules for many projects but I do not own the actually dates. I have to go to many people to gather the dates, dependencies etc. Since the reality is that the schedule is really being done in parallel with the design (we do not have a schedule and then start the work) there are actual dates that are occurring now. So if I use the project start date or the current date as the schedule is being developed then others may interprete those as the real dates (that they think are not accurately reflecting their schedule or can be misinterpreted as a delivery into them which is not real). Since many people are going to be looking at the schedule as it is being developed, I wanted a way to very obviously indicated that I have not gotten all the input from everyone so there are dates and dependency relationships that have not been established yet. Eventually it will all come together and the start dates will be accurately reflected. Also its a good indication as the schedule is being developed that something was not linked properly since there is a N/A or no date or a really strange date.

[John Beamish]

In P2003 you get the ability to append a "?" to a duration to indicate
that it is just an estimate.

Since the Finish date depends on the Duration and subsequent Start dates
depend on the predecessors and linkages, you are fully covered.

As for your other issues, Steve is absolutely correct in theory *and* in
practice, when he tells you to let Project drive the dates. THAT is the
way real life works. Your role isn't to specify the dates; your role is
to specify the work, the duration, the resources and the
predecessor/successor relationships.

If people don't like the dates, then change the resources, work, duration
or predecessors/successors.

(Well, ok, if you want to cause yourself a lot of unnecessary work down
the road, specify the dates -- but when you change things, the changes to
the dates won't automatically cascade because you'll have entered them and
they will now have constraints on them that probably will restrict the
automatic changes you would have otherwise seen.)

JLB, PMP


On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:41:05 -0800, chris

Post by chris
I wrote the orginal question and the reason for the question was that I
am generating schedules for many projects but I do not own the actually
dates. I have to go to many people to gather the dates, dependencies
etc. Since the reality is that the schedule is really being done in
parallel with the design (we do not have a schedule and then start the
work) there are actual dates that are occurring now. So if I use the
project start date or the current date as the schedule is being
developed then others may interprete those as the real dates (that they
think are not accurately reflecting their schedule or can be
misinterpreted as a delivery into them which is not real). Since many
people are going to be looking at the schedule as it is being developed,
I wanted a way to very obviously indicated that I have not gotten all
the input from everyone so there are dates and dependency relationships
that have not been established yet. Eventually it will all come
together and the start dates will be accurately reflected. Also its a
good indication as the schedule is being developed that something was
not linked properly since there is a N/A or no date or a really strange
date.

--

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi Chris,

Brings me back to my first advice then
set 1/1/84 as project start date as long as you do not want to show any
realistic date.
HTH

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
Project Management Consultancy
Prom+ade BVBA
32-495-300 620

Post by chris
I wrote the orginal question and the reason for the question was that I am

generating schedules for many projects but I do not own the actually dates.
I have to go to many people to gather the dates, dependencies etc. Since the
reality is that the schedule is really being done in parallel with the
design (we do not have a schedule and then start the work) there are actual
dates that are occurring now. So if I use the project start date or the
current date as the schedule is being developed then others may interprete
those as the real dates (that they think are not accurately reflecting their
schedule or can be misinterpreted as a delivery into them which is not
real). Since many people are going to be looking at the schedule as it is
being developed, I wanted a way to very obviously indicated that I have not
gotten all the input from everyone so there are dates and dependency
relationships that have not been established yet. Eventually it will all
come together and the start dates will be accurately reflected. Also its a
good indication as the schedule is being developed that something was not
linked properly since there is a N/A or no date or a really strange date.

[Mike Glen]

Hi Chris,

Where you have uncertain dates, why not click on the row(s) ID numbers to
select all the row(s) and then through Format/Text give them a striking
colour, which you tell people that it's because that data is not yet
resolved.


Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
I wrote the orginal question and the reason for the question was that
I am generating schedules for many projects but I do not own the
actually dates. I have to go to many people to gather the dates,
dependencies etc. Since the reality is that the schedule is really
being done in parallel with the design (we do not have a schedule and
then start the work) there are actual dates that are occurring now.
So if I use the project start date or the current date as the
schedule is being developed then others may interprete those as the
real dates (that they think are not accurately reflecting their
schedule or can be misinterpreted as a delivery into them which is
not real). Since many people are going to be looking at the schedule
as it is being developed, I wanted a way to very obviously indicated
that I have not gotten all the input from everyone so there are dates
and dependency relationships that have not been established yet.
Eventually it will all come together and the start dates will be
accurately reflected. Also its a good indication as the schedule is
being developed that something was not linked properly since there
is a N/A or no date or a really strange date.

[Steve House]

Are these scheduled dates being developed for future tasks by other people
using whatever methodology they use or are you referring to getting reports
about the tasks and the dates they were worked after the task has begun or
been completely worked? I find it strange that you are generating the
schedules yet "do not own the dates" - that really seems to be defeating the
purpose of generating the schedule in the first place and an extremely
uncomfortable place for a project manager to find himself - responsible for
bringing the project in on-time and within-budget yet unable to control the
only variables that allow him to do that. The resources should not be
telling you when they want to or will work on something, you need to be the
one that tells them when they NEED to be working on it so that you can bring
the overall program in on time. That's not to say you don't coordinate with
them and solicit input from them, far from it, but the job of a manager is,
well, to manage - exercise tactical control to achieve the firm's strategic
objectives. That means you set the direction and either make or at least
influence, coordinating with the project sponsor and the resource's
managers, the decisions as to how the resources are to be deployed.

Steve House
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
I wrote the orginal question and the reason for the question was that I am

generating schedules for many projects but I do not own the actually dates.
I have to go to many people to gather the dates, dependencies etc. Since the
reality is that the schedule is really being done in parallel with the
design (we do not have a schedule and then start the work) there are actual
dates that are occurring now. So if I use the project start date or the
current date as the schedule is being developed then others may interprete
those as the real dates (that they think are not accurately reflecting their
schedule or can be misinterpreted as a delivery into them which is not
real). Since many people are going to be looking at the schedule as it is
being developed, I wanted a way to very obviously indicated that I have not
gotten all the input from everyone so there are dates and dependency
relationships that have not been established yet. Eventually it will all
come together and the start dates will be accurately reflected. Also its a
good indication as the schedule is being developed that something was not
linked properly since there is a N/A or no date or a really strange date.

[Troy Tuckett PMP]

I would generally agree with Steve. Granted there are
exceptions but as a project manager you need to educate
the masses on how schedules should be established. If
you are gathering information from team members (which I
would consider a best practice), gather estimates,
dependencies, and ask if there is any reason that a task
must happen on a specific date. Doing this will make it
much easier to create and manage a schedule.

-----Original Message-----
I have a lot or respect for Steve and value his

knowledge,

but if I have to say one thing that I don't agree with

is

that all of his responses are 100% correct in theory,

but

NOT in reality. Your "theory" responses mean nothing in
the real world. So please when you answer a question,

go

ahead and provide the theoretical answer (Which I really
do value), but please don't forget the reality is the

real

world. These people need real world solutions to their
problems.

-----Original Message-----
You're getting the cart before the horse here. You

should not "establish

and fill in" the dates for tasks yourself at all -

that's

the job of MS

Project. Except in the *rare* circumstance where you

intend to establish

either a "start no earlier than" or "finish no earlier

than" task constraint

you should never, ever enter any dates in the start or

finish columns.

Project looks at the Project start date, the dependency

relationships

between the tasks, and the availability of resources

and

then computes the

start/finish dates that will give you the optimum

schedule. That's the

fundmental reason to use the software.
Steve House
MS Project MVP

message

news:E490EAC3-1047-4246-A863-

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can

be

set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A

until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the

schedule before all

the dates have been established. I tried to set the

current date to N/A in

the Project Information to force this but it would not

allow it ? Any

ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

.

.

[Steve House]

I've given very much a real world solution to a real world problem and
there's nothing theoretical about it. That's the way Project is
designed and functions. If you don't like the way a product works, try
something else instead of trying to force a square peg down a round
hole. If you already have start and finish dates for tasks other than
their completion targets or deadlines, you already have a project
schedule. So why are you entering the tasks into a piece of scheduling
software whose entire focus is to take the parametric information
(duration, resources, work, links) about the tasks and calculate the
project schedule for you (and then tracking progress against the
schedule it has created)? That is what Project is - schedule
development software - and at the very least it should be a reality
check for the schedule you brought to the table and not just slavishly
display input dates willy-nilly without any consideration as to their
viability. If its calculated schedule differs from those in the schedule
you previously had in mind, you would be well advised to believe when
you actually try to work the plan you're going to come a lot closer to
the dates Project has predicted than you will to the dates you had hoped
for.
--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Post by a***@discussions.microsoft.com
I have a lot or respect for Steve and value his knowledge,
but if I have to say one thing that I don't agree with is
that all of his responses are 100% correct in theory, but
NOT in reality. Your "theory" responses mean nothing in
the real world. So please when you answer a question, go
ahead and provide the theoretical answer (Which I really
do value), but please don't forget the reality is the real
world. These people need real world solutions to their
problems.

-----Original Message-----
You're getting the cart before the horse here. You

should not "establish

and fill in" the dates for tasks yourself at all - that's

the job of MS

Project. Except in the *rare* circumstance where you

intend to establish

either a "start no earlier than" or "finish no earlier

than" task constraint

you should never, ever enter any dates in the start or

finish columns.

Project looks at the Project start date, the dependency

relationships

between the tasks, and the availability of resources and

then computes the

start/finish dates that will give you the optimum

schedule. That's the

fundmental reason to use the software.
Steve House
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be

set to "start on

project date" or "start on the current date" .

Post by chris
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A

until I fill them in

? It could be misleading for someone else reading the

schedule before all

the dates have been established. I tried to set the

current date to N/A in

the Project Information to force this but it would not

allow it ? Any

ideas how I could get this to come up blank or N/A ?

Post by chris
Thanks

.

[Mike Glen]

Hi Chris,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :-)

Not possible - Project must have a date on which to work. I suggest you
don't release the project for others to see until you're ready.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :-)

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start
on project date" or "start on the current date" .
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill
them in ? It could be misleading for someone else reading the
schedule before all the dates have been established. I tried to set
the current date to N/A in the Project Information to force this but
it would not allow it ? Any ideas how I could get this to come up
blank or N/A ? Thanks

[Veton]

I have the same problem. After reading the message, I recognized myself.
Real problem are chiefs and CEO's who have heard that some
kick-a$$ project manager is using MS Project to optimize schedule and to
present the schedule to the customer.
There is no real added value and meaning in the schedules we are typing
out.

Post by Jan De Messemaeker
Hi Chris,
Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :-)
Not possible - Project must have a date on which to work. I suggest you
don't release the project for others to see until you're ready.
FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>
Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :-)
Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start
on project date" or "start on the current date" .
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill
them in ? It could be misleading for someone else reading the
schedule before all the dates have been established. I tried to set
the current date to N/A in the Project Information to force this but
it would not allow it ? Any ideas how I could get this to come up
blank or N/A ? Thanks

[Steve House]

You hit the nail square on its head. When used in the manner Chris
described, simply to maintain a list of task names with fixed start and
finish dates that have been determined elsewhere, MS Project is nothing
more than a very expensive and time-consuming software version of a wall
calendar and box of Magic Markers. Like any tool, to realize its real
value it must be used appropriately and correctly.
--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Post by Veton
I have the same problem. After reading the message, I recognized myself.
Real problem are chiefs and CEO's who have heard that some
kick-a$$ project manager is using MS Project to optimize schedule and to
present the schedule to the customer.
There is no real added value and meaning in the schedules we are typing
out.

Post by Jan De Messemaeker
Hi Chris,
Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :-)
Not possible - Project must have a date on which to work. I suggest you
don't release the project for others to see until you're ready.
FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>
Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :-)
Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Post by chris
In the Options->schedule tab -> tasks, new tasks can be set to "start
on project date" or "start on the current date" .
Is there a way to get new tasks to come up with a N/A until I fill
them in ? It could be misleading for someone else reading the
schedule before all the dates have been established. I tried to set
the current date to N/A in the Project Information to force this but
it would not allow it ? Any ideas how I could get this to come up
blank or N/A ? Thanks

--

http://www.opera.com/m2/