Start dates aren't changing to match up with predecessor's finish

[Ally]

I've set tasks to have predecessors and given everything a 'start ASAP'
constraint. I've been entering hours worked (and having allocated days and
actual duration visible, as well as a set baseline) and then, when the task
is complete, changing the allocated days to match the actual duration so we
can see how quickly the tasks are progressing.
What I would like to do is have the start and finish dates automatically
update according to the hours/days the predecessing task took.
Help?

[Jim Aksel]

Two things to look at. First, if you enter any actual work at all for a
task, you will be locking in a date in the "Actual Start" Field. Project
automatically does this for you using the date in the "Start" field. Once
the "Actual Start" is populated, this becomes "reality" and will override
anything you do with the predecessors.

So, be careful not to enter actual data into tasks with a start after the
status date.

One other item to check, Tools/Options/Calucations (tab) and be certain
calculation is set to automatic.

See if that helps.

Jim

Post by Ally
I've set tasks to have predecessors and given everything a 'start ASAP'
constraint. I've been entering hours worked (and having allocated days and
actual duration visible, as well as a set baseline) and then, when the task
is complete, changing the allocated days to match the actual duration so we
can see how quickly the tasks are progressing.
What I would like to do is have the start and finish dates automatically
update according to the hours/days the predecessing task took.
Help?

[Ally]

Hm, okay. Thanks Jim!
My calculation is set to Automatic, so that's all fine.
I am working with a bit of a backlog of data but I might have to go through
and drag all my tasks in the gannt chart up to match the end dates for the
tasks that have actual work. This is doable, but a bit annoying. :)
However, the tasks that are set but don't have any actual work logged still
aren't moving up to the end of the last task WITH actual work. Any way to do
this?

Post by Jim Aksel
Two things to look at. First, if you enter any actual work at all for a
task, you will be locking in a date in the "Actual Start" Field. Project
automatically does this for you using the date in the "Start" field. Once
the "Actual Start" is populated, this becomes "reality" and will override
anything you do with the predecessors.
So, be careful not to enter actual data into tasks with a start after the
status date.
One other item to check, Tools/Options/Calucations (tab) and be certain
calculation is set to automatic.
See if that helps.
Jim

Post by Ally
I've set tasks to have predecessors and given everything a 'start ASAP'
constraint. I've been entering hours worked (and having allocated days and
actual duration visible, as well as a set baseline) and then, when the task
is complete, changing the allocated days to match the actual duration so we
can see how quickly the tasks are progressing.
What I would like to do is have the start and finish dates automatically
update according to the hours/days the predecessing task took.
Help?

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

Simple: they should.
Have you entered any actual data against these not moving tasks such as
actual start, actual duration...
All of these render the task immovable.
Greetings,
--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
[phone]
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

Post by Ally
Hm, okay. Thanks Jim!
My calculation is set to Automatic, so that's all fine.
I am working with a bit of a backlog of data but I might have to go through
and drag all my tasks in the gannt chart up to match the end dates for the
tasks that have actual work. This is doable, but a bit annoying. :)
However, the tasks that are set but don't have any actual work logged still
aren't moving up to the end of the last task WITH actual work. Any way to do
this?

Post by Jim Aksel
Two things to look at. First, if you enter any actual work at all for a
task, you will be locking in a date in the "Actual Start" Field.
Project
automatically does this for you using the date in the "Start" field. Once
the "Actual Start" is populated, this becomes "reality" and will override
anything you do with the predecessors.
So, be careful not to enter actual data into tasks with a start after the
status date.
One other item to check, Tools/Options/Calucations (tab) and be certain
calculation is set to automatic.
See if that helps.
Jim

Post by Ally
I've set tasks to have predecessors and given everything a 'start ASAP'
constraint. I've been entering hours worked (and having allocated days and
actual duration visible, as well as a set baseline) and then, when the task
is complete, changing the allocated days to match the actual duration
so
we
can see how quickly the tasks are progressing.
What I would like to do is have the start and finish dates
automatically
update according to the hours/days the predecessing task took.
Help?

[Ally]

I have Duration set for the empty tasks, but not Actual Duration.
I have had a play around and dragged everything with hours input up to match
the finish of its predecessor, and it seems to be pulling all the empty tasks
up with it as well. Hooray!

Hopefully once I start getting some data into the new tasks, and am not
working with a backlog, the dates should change to reflect the new work.



Thanks for you help Jan and Jim.

Post by Jan De Messemaeker
Hi,
Simple: they should.
Have you entered any actual data against these not moving tasks such as
actual start, actual duration...
All of these render the task immovable.
Greetings,

[Rob Schneider]

You mention you "dragged everything". Not sure if this an issue for
you, but when you drag a task, Project will change the start date to the
start date in the dragged position. Project will also change the
constraint on that task to be "Start No Earlier" than that date.

A good way to see if you have constraints that you are not expecting is
to display the "Constraint Type" field in a column.

--rms

www.rmschneider.com

Post by Ally
I have Duration set for the empty tasks, but not Actual Duration.
I have had a play around and dragged everything with hours input up to match
the finish of its predecessor, and it seems to be pulling all the empty tasks
up with it as well. Hooray!
Hopefully once I start getting some data into the new tasks, and am not
working with a backlog, the dates should change to reflect the new work.
Thanks for you help Jan and Jim.

Post by Jan De Messemaeker
Hi,
Simple: they should.
Have you entered any actual data against these not moving tasks such as
actual start, actual duration...
All of these render the task immovable.
Greetings,

[Ally]

Hi Rob - changing the start date to match up with the end of the predecessor
is exactly what I want to do, it's just annoying that I have to manually do
it for every single entry.
Thanks for the tip about the Constraint Type column, I'll give it a go.

[Rob Schneider]

Clearly you don't want to do it manually, and you should not have to. As
you no doubt know, Project will, when it computes a schedule, put the
start date for the successor on the date computed as prescribe by the
predecessors type of link (FS, FF, SF, or SS) and the type, the size of
lag (time, %, etc.), and in accordance with contraint types and dates.

You probably want for your situation, based on what you explain, to have
links that are "As Soon As Possible", Finish-to-Start (FS), with zero lag.

Once you "drag" tasks you will introduce the constraints, e.g. "Start No
Earlier Than" that probably are causing Project not to do as you expect.
Thus you drag more, and even more tasks end up with unwanted
constraints. Don't drag tasks unless you want constraint dates. The
problems then become self-inflicted. :-)

There are few situations where constraint dates make sense in a project
plan. The only one I can think of right now would be the date that the
sun is expected to go into eclipse. It's pretty much for sure it will
happen on a "must start on" constraint date.

--rms

www.rmschneider.com

Post by Ally
Hi Rob - changing the start date to match up with the end of the predecessor
is exactly what I want to do, it's just annoying that I have to manually do
it for every single entry.
Thanks for the tip about the Constraint Type column, I'll give it a go.

[Ally]

Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have durations set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have it be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based upon, but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.

[Rob Schneider]

Probably best to start again as it affords the opportunity to get your
head around it.

Comments:

1. Despite Project calling them "tasks", in Project put line items for
the the name of the deliverable, e.g. "Create Concept", "Draw and
Complete Detail Sketch", "Finalise Sketch".

2. Assign the resources to those deliverables per the budget/plan

3. Duation is the calendar time (work days) that the work will take.
Durations are not the deadlines when the work is due.

4. For all or some of the deliverable, use the Deadline field to record
the expectation of when they should be done. Doing this simple thing
will allow Project to warn you when it computes a forecast schedule that
is late.

5. remember that Work is how much time it takes. Work is not Duration.

6. Avoid putting in start/end dates. Use the logic of
predecessors/successors for Project to tell you the dates.

7. I don't know what you mean by "empty" tasks so can't possibly
comment!! (Avoid "empty" tasks!)

Probably good to get a book on Project, or read some of the online
resources. In particular, learn how to track progress (from your
comments below I suspect this still something you need to learn about).

--rms

www.rmschneider.com

Post by Ally
Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have durations set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have it be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based upon, but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.

[Steve House]

Might I suggest .... It's not the job of the project manager to micromanage
the resource's workday. Since the same resource is doing the concept, the
sketch, and the final art, you don't have multiple resources to coordinate
in the production of a single picture. From your description it doesn't
sound like they have to split up their work to make room for other
resource's activities - ie, submit the concept for approval from another
party before starting the sketch - so just estimate the total time from the
start of the process until the delivery the final picture and be done with
it. Managing the phases just to be in control is pointless. The fact you
CAN track his hours on each component of the work doesn't mean that you
OUGHT to do it or that it makes sense to do it. Now if you have a number of
resources involved in the production of a single picture and you need to
coordinate their activities, that's a different story. But if just one
resource is responsible for the entire process. he's perfectly capable of
managing his workflow all on his own - let him do his job the way he knows
is best to do it. All a PM needs to be concerned with is when he starts and
when he delivers the completed picture. What happens in the middle just
doesn't matter.
--
Steve House
MS Project Trainer & Consultant

Post by Ally
Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have durations set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have it be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based upon, but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.

[Ally]

You guys are seriously helpful!
I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to get my head around things though.
Steve, as much as what you said would simplify everything for me amazingly,
the artists do actually have set deadlines to have their three thumbnails in
for approval, then another deadline for their detail sketches, etc.
Is there any way I can make this time still flexible though? If I didn't set
a baseline, or allocated days, (for example) would just entering their hours
be enough to make the start/finish dates move the way I want?

Post by Steve House
Might I suggest .... It's not the job of the project manager to micromanage
the resource's workday. Since the same resource is doing the concept, the
sketch, and the final art, you don't have multiple resources to coordinate
in the production of a single picture. From your description it doesn't
sound like they have to split up their work to make room for other
resource's activities - ie, submit the concept for approval from another
party before starting the sketch - so just estimate the total time from the
start of the process until the delivery the final picture and be done with
it. Managing the phases just to be in control is pointless. The fact you
CAN track his hours on each component of the work doesn't mean that you
OUGHT to do it or that it makes sense to do it. Now if you have a number of
resources involved in the production of a single picture and you need to
coordinate their activities, that's a different story. But if just one
resource is responsible for the entire process. he's perfectly capable of
managing his workflow all on his own - let him do his job the way he knows
is best to do it. All a PM needs to be concerned with is when he starts and
when he delivers the completed picture. What happens in the middle just
doesn't matter.
--
Steve House
MS Project Trainer & Consultant

Post by Ally
Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have durations set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have it be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based upon, but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.

[Rob Schneider]

What time to do want to make "flexible".

Have you yet gotten an understanding of duration, work, units, and
deadline dates? They are all different.

The baseline is what you set after you decide the plan. It just store
the current plan (durations, logical sequence, work, etc.) so that as
you progress the plan you can compare against that baseline.

I also think you might be a bit off track with "entering their hours ...
to make thee start/finish dates move the way I want". I think that
backwards. You should develop a plan which defines no dates! Let
Project compute the dates for you based on the durations, work, and
units for the deliverables (see my prev note). You input the deadlines
you want. If Project computes dates within those deadlines, then great.
baseline the plan and work the plan. Keep track of progress and let
Project recompute the dates. If the dates go beyond the deadlines,
Project will alert you.

Let Project do its thing.

(It's all about getting your head around it and probably thinking about
it differently...worth it when you get there).

--rms

www.rmschneider.com

Post by Ally
You guys are seriously helpful!
I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to get my head around things though.
Steve, as much as what you said would simplify everything for me amazingly,
the artists do actually have set deadlines to have their three thumbnails in
for approval, then another deadline for their detail sketches, etc.
Is there any way I can make this time still flexible though? If I didn't set
a baseline, or allocated days, (for example) would just entering their hours
be enough to make the start/finish dates move the way I want?

Post by Steve House
Might I suggest .... It's not the job of the project manager to micromanage
the resource's workday. Since the same resource is doing the concept, the
sketch, and the final art, you don't have multiple resources to coordinate
in the production of a single picture. From your description it doesn't
sound like they have to split up their work to make room for other
resource's activities - ie, submit the concept for approval from another
party before starting the sketch - so just estimate the total time from the
start of the process until the delivery the final picture and be done with
it. Managing the phases just to be in control is pointless. The fact you
CAN track his hours on each component of the work doesn't mean that you
OUGHT to do it or that it makes sense to do it. Now if you have a number of
resources involved in the production of a single picture and you need to
coordinate their activities, that's a different story. But if just one
resource is responsible for the entire process. he's perfectly capable of
managing his workflow all on his own - let him do his job the way he knows
is best to do it. All a PM needs to be concerned with is when he starts and
when he delivers the completed picture. What happens in the middle just
doesn't matter.
--
Steve House
MS Project Trainer & Consultant

Post by Ally
Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have durations set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have it be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based upon, but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.

[Steve House]

If that's the case and you do have to manage each phase of a drawing
separately, each drawing becomes a summary task with the three phases as
subtasks within them. Link the subtasks FS (finish-to-start) and add
appropriate lag times in the links to account for the time waiting for the
approvals to come back. Don't set start and end dates for the individual
sub tasks, estimate their durations and let Project calculate all their
dates. The durations you supply on the task Entry table in the Gantt chart
are the estimated, or scheduled, durations. Once you get them all in, save
a baseline so you'll have a record of where things start out. Then, as you
artists report the actual time it took to do each task and the dates they
actually did them, switch to the Tracking table and enter them as Actual
Start and Actual Finish or Actual Duration. When you go back the entry
table you'll find the duration, start, and finish of completed tasks will
have been updated to reflect the actuals and downline task's scheduled dates
will have been recalculated. Nore that you can NOT update the dates and
durations in the Entry table by hand to enter the actuals - you must switch
to a table that shows the fields specifically named Actual Start, Actual
Finish, Actual Duration and Remaining Duration (NOT Start, Finish, and
Duration) to update the schedule with what actually took place.

HTH
--
Steve House
MS Project Trainer & Consultant

Post by Ally
You guys are seriously helpful!
I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to get my head around things though.
Steve, as much as what you said would simplify everything for me amazingly,
the artists do actually have set deadlines to have their three thumbnails in
for approval, then another deadline for their detail sketches, etc.
Is there any way I can make this time still flexible though? If I didn't set
a baseline, or allocated days, (for example) would just entering their hours
be enough to make the start/finish dates move the way I want?

Post by Steve House
Might I suggest .... It's not the job of the project manager to micromanage
the resource's workday. Since the same resource is doing the concept, the
sketch, and the final art, you don't have multiple resources to coordinate
in the production of a single picture. From your description it doesn't
sound like they have to split up their work to make room for other
resource's activities - ie, submit the concept for approval from another
party before starting the sketch - so just estimate the total time from the
start of the process until the delivery the final picture and be done with
it. Managing the phases just to be in control is pointless. The fact you
CAN track his hours on each component of the work doesn't mean that you
OUGHT to do it or that it makes sense to do it. Now if you have a number of
resources involved in the production of a single picture and you need to
coordinate their activities, that's a different story. But if just one
resource is responsible for the entire process. he's perfectly capable of
managing his workflow all on his own - let him do his job the way he knows
is best to do it. All a PM needs to be concerned with is when he starts and
when he delivers the completed picture. What happens in the middle just
doesn't matter.
--
Steve House
MS Project Trainer & Consultant

Post by Ally
Hm.
I'm just wondering if I should start over again and what the best way to
implement it would be.
I'm working with artists who are assigned three tasks at once, and each task
(a single picture) is split into different sections - for example a concept,
a detail sketch, and then the finished piece of art. They have
durations
set
for each to be completed (and the sketch has to follow the concept, the
finished art to follow the sketch, and in the set of three they do all the
concepts at once, then once approved, all the sketches, etc) but they can
complete things ahead of or behind time, shown in actual duration.
What we want to do is add in their daily hours (actual work) and have
it
be
the precedent that the proceeding start and finish dates are based
upon,
but
any empty tasks in the future still set to have the preset durations so we
can tell when they're likely to finish.